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Thank You bills good that you would good

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morning everybody now here is three

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version of market free word version of

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my talk and it is there is hope in fact

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it's quite amazing isn't it 75 years

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after d-day Here I am another German

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speaking to an American mainly American

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audience I find that quite amazing

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so what I'm going to do here is present

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the basics of the Karelia report now the

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galilean report is a commissioned work

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commissioned by the scientific and

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medical network I have a few leaflets

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out there where you can order the full

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copy you can also download it at this

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website for free as a PDF for order

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books and print on demands and I have a

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very few short versions here and what

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I'm going to do here is give you an

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overview about what this whole

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enterprise is about the idea was to pull

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together arguments and evidence that

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points to the limitations of the current

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worldview that is imminent in scientific

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enterprises as Larry has pointed out and

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I am going to show you the outline of

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the argument here now the outline of the

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argument starts with a very basic

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insight that there is no such thing as a

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scientific enterprise without

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preconditions and presuppositions the

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inescapability of background assumptions

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I call it and this is a general insight

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that has become prominent since the

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1930s and it shows in ontological

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assumptions it shows into methodological

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it's a shells in methodological and

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epistemological assumptions and a few of

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the names that should be mentioned here

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are here collingwood the philosopher

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from oxford girdle who pointed that out

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in mathematics Vidkun stein who pointed

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it out in philosophy flag who pointed

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this out in the generic way how science

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is done Collinwood that this Collingwood

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here wrote a very influential book an

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essay on metaphysics and there he

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pointed out that there is no such thing

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as an enterprise without assumptions he

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called those absolute presuppositions

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and these are presuppositions that

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people make without actually noticing

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that and without being aware of it

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that cannot be proven by the very

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practice they actually are supposed to

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found and they are therefore only open

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too analytical criticism once you are

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aware of them and this is what we have

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been doing in this report so I make a

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distinction in two science one that is

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the current methodology such as

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experiments and things like that science

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too this is the current background

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assumptions that people mostly hold

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unconsciously and sign three would be

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any large set of background assumptions

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and this is what we are driving at and

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this would then give rise to what I call

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science one star a future widen

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methodology which is largely probably

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enlarged and widened by integrating an

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inner kind of epistemic epistemology and

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I will come to that now here are a

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couple of the most important background

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assumptions that are operative today one

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is already mentioned a materialist

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ontology matter is the only reality in

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the universe and what you presented

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Larry was a good example of that right

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and out of that everything else emerges

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which also means all seemingly non

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material entities like mind angels

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demons gods consciousness are non

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existent in epistemology one of the most

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important assumption is that reductive

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analysis is the only method some people

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say the most important the only method

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of choice to understand complicated

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matters so if you have something

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complicated you break it down into units

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and

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experiment is the only primary way way

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of gaining knowledge everything else

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then in methodology we also have logical

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analysis of the theoretical structures

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they have to use binary logic and that

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is a very catchy thing I think because

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it leads us into the either/or trap the

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point is logical structures only apply

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to sentences already Aristotle pointed

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that out but what is behind the

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sentences reality itself is not obeying

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a logical either-or structure and the

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most important danger I think we have

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come in to through scientific reasoning

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is that we now treat everything as if it

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were obeying an either/or logical

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structure and that is probably a

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profound fallacy I think so science is

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actually reducing complexity illicitly

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now ethics is a difficult thing because

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science is not in a position to provide

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values even though evolutionary biology

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might show us how the ethics we have we

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arrived at it cannot found the norms and

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the basic purposes the golden rule is a

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kind of common thing that comes out of

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religions but it is not something

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science provides for it's actually

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something David Lama says we are living

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off the ethical capital left by the

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religion that is still around in a

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mainly materialist background assumption

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science or society now I point out to

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the limitations of the background

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assumptions and the most important

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limitation already mentioned is that

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consciousness consciousness cannot be

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explained by that this guy here is Emile

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de guerra mo a German physicist sorry

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physiologist in Germany in 1842 he said

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we will be able to show that

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consciousness is just matter

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and forces working in the organism a

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couple of years later he said we

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probably will never be able to explain

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consciousness but still science is there

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stating we will be we will be able to do

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that but actually it only works by

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presupposing a conscious substance 18

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this assumption that's a very important

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and profound insight which most people

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forget only by a conscious subject like

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Deniz saying we are also bees can he say

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we are all some bees so his statement is

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actually wrong but most people don't

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actually realize that so consciousness

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can never ever be fully explained within

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a materialist framework

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my suggestion is consciousness is

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irreducible I wouldn't go as far as to

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say this primary it's probably Co

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primary but it has I think we we we need

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to see it as irreducible and a minimal

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consensus model is probably a

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complimentary stance that's what I call

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it where consciousness and matter are

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two complementary aspects of reality

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this lady dressed up as a Paradis maybe

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maybe you can see it it's actually a

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lady sitting on her honor on this wood

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thing and she's dressed up like a parrot

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so sometimes it looks like a parrot if

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you look carefully it's actually a lady

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so it's a lady parrot parrot lady and I

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use it as an image of complementarity

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right you have to Larry explained it you

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have two things that cannot be together

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and you still need them these these

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irreducible components you need them to

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explain a thing now I use empirical data

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that show that you actually cannot

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explain consciousness materialistically

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one is this interesting book by Reavers

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at others who have collected a hundred

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cases more than hundred cases of

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near-death experiences from the

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literature they are already published

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and they are all verified by medical

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records you can all in all these cases

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you see that

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the heart has stopped beating for at

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least five minutes so you can assume

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there is no blood flow to the brain and

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you have near-death experiences in the

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middle of the events and also vehicle

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non-local perceptions of all kinds of

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events it's an interesting book I really

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recommend reading it if you don't know

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it and these are just hardcore empirical

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cases you could say well this one is

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wrong or that one is wrong or maybe this

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one is cooked up but all of them not

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very reasonable assumption William James

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in his presidential address to the

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scientific to the Society of psychical

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Research he used that bundle argument

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right as that you take the sticks

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together in a bundle you can't break

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them you may be able to break singular

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stick sticks but not the whole bundle

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and that is the argument I'll make here

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then there is the empirical database of

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parapsychology which has been around for

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a long time and last year itsuka Dania

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brought that together in a huge

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meta-analysis you're not supposed to

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read all that but it is it is it is just

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to show you there is data around and

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these are the most important

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parapsychological meta-analysis on

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precognition PK presentment remote

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viewing these things and all of them

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show significant effects um with a

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highly unlikely statistical significance

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some are not so strong but all of them

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together they show an effect which I

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find is quite amazing and should be

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taken into account now science has

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already seen the limitation of the

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analytical strategy what you see here

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isn't an image from an interesting

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publication by Schlag and colleagues he

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is actually the head of the Robert

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Morris Research Lab in Geneva so the

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cigarette industry has actually

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understood that our organism is much

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more complicated that medical science

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would have it this is the network of

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enzymes that become active when you

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smoke one cigarette quite interesting

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isn't it

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biology has actually already seen how

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complex our organism is and the

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reductive strategy doesn't work so we

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could attach ourselves to those advanced

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methodological principles that are

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already operative in systems biology for

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instance or holistic approaches within

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medicine and synthesis to be announced

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as a complement to analysis otherwise we

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won't see a whole strategy or a whole

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element now limitations of empiricism

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are next so the inner experience is

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actually complement and you arrive at

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that very simply if you understand that

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any experience whatever it is even if it

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is an outer experience of say a tree

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here is always foremost a subjective

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experience with an outside referent

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that's the only difference

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to say a mystical experience in a

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mystical experience you don't have an

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outside reference you only have your own

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experience in an outside ref in a normal

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experience you have an outside referent

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there but the experience itself is

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private always and cannot be made public

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except through discourse except through

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methodological advances so if it comes

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to two inner experiences I would say

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they're actually similar they're very

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similar experience but the referent is

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something untouchable inner you can't

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you can't point to something here you

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can't say there is God and it's of

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course very difficult to disentangle the

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truth from imagination in inner

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experiences was Joan d'Arc saying that

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st. Catherine and the Archangel Michael

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told her to take the French King to

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coronation was she imagining that did

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she actually he isn't mustn't Michael

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and Saint Catherine difficult to tell we

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only have the historical record and that

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is the hundred years war ended and the

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British were driven out of France lucky

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for France

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so if you look into into science

280
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you also have inner experience there

281
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because you always have inner

282
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experiences directed towards an inner

283
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reference and if you look into the

284
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scientific terminology you have from

285
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Aristotle terms like noises thinking and

286
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Honora also Lucia that that's the Latin

287
00:13:46,940 --> 00:13:44,700
term that's a Greek term meaning sharp

288
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sightedness the insight that scientists

289
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have when they discover some structure

290
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it's actually quite similar to what you

291
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have in in spiritual experiences I find

292
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now another step is to go away from that

293
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either all thinking and in McGilchrist

294
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who is one of the counselors on the

295
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Galileo project as well and has written

296
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a forward to it he has written fluent

297
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shil book the master and his emissary

298
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where I points out that the culture we

299
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are actually living in and we are

300
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educated in is biased in towards that

301
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either/or logical thinking because it

302
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has advanced language logical structure

303
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logical analysis very much

304
00:14:35,540 --> 00:14:32,220
what we need is regained this left brain

305
00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:35,550
right brain balance and one way of doing

306
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that would be introducing a culture of

307
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consciousness the old Pali term dianna

308
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actually means culture of consciousness

309
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it was translated into meditation by

310
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German indologists of the 18th and 19th

311
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century but it's actually broader it's a

312
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culture of consciousness meaning

313
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integrating contemplation consciousness

314
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studies and consciousness practice like

315
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meditation into science so this would

316
00:15:08,540 --> 00:15:06,420
limit either/or region reasoning into to

317
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those places where it is actually

318
00:15:14,180 --> 00:15:11,610
necessary analyzing sentences analyzing

319
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logical structure but not reality as a

320
00:15:22,730 --> 00:15:19,460
whole there is a good example how this

321
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limit this limitation to either/or

322
00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:26,210
structures actually is limiting science

323
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for instance for a long time it was

324
00:15:34,190 --> 00:15:31,410
standard teaching immune system and

325
00:15:36,620 --> 00:15:34,200
nervous systems are separate either-or

326
00:15:39,140 --> 00:15:36,630
it's wrong we know now but it took a

327
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very long time and a very long battle to

328
00:15:47,390 --> 00:15:44,490
to bridge that gap right had we not

329
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thought too much in either/or structures

330
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:49,050
it wouldn't have been a problem to see

331
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that the immune system can actually talk

332
00:15:54,860 --> 00:15:52,800
to the nervous system and the nervous

333
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system can talk to the immune system why

334
00:16:01,190 --> 00:15:58,050
not we now know it does but for a long

335
00:16:05,180 --> 00:16:01,200
time it was dogma to separate them one

336
00:16:06,820 --> 00:16:05,190
example of how either all exclusive

337
00:16:09,950 --> 00:16:06,830
thinking is actually hampering

338
00:16:13,310 --> 00:16:09,960
scientific progress now when it comes to

339
00:16:19,730 --> 00:16:13,320
ethics and values it is very difficult

340
00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:19,740
to found them without an inner access to

341
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:22,430
reality I would say or put differently

342
00:16:31,450 --> 00:16:26,370
inner access to reality might actually

343
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:31,460
be a way of ascertaining ethics and

344
00:16:38,810 --> 00:16:36,720
morality on empirical grounds and not on

345
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the grounds because someone tells you or

346
00:16:50,380 --> 00:16:41,160
because the majority of people have said

347
00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:50,390
so so the question is can we is

348
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:53,940
political sanctioning sufficient to make

349
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citizens and people in general behave

350
00:17:01,370 --> 00:16:59,030
morally or ethically it obviously isn't

351
00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:01,380
scientific and other misconduct shows

352
00:17:07,460 --> 00:17:05,130
that and in the end and that is what is

353
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:07,470
happening now quality assurance or

354
00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:09,570
quality assessment becomes a new

355
00:17:14,689 --> 00:17:11,910
religion because it is an operative way

356
00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:14,699
of trying to assess quality I don't

357
00:17:20,420 --> 00:17:16,370
think it's actually a good idea

358
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:20,430
okay I move on so here is a rough

359
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:24,810
outline what sine three is supposed to

360
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:27,089
look like we have any large set of

361
00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:30,330
background assumptions and we use the

362
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:32,220
idea of consciousness as complementary

363
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:33,810
to matter

364
00:17:40,370 --> 00:17:38,250
one method would be inner experience

365
00:17:45,110 --> 00:17:40,380
meditation contemplation contemplative

366
00:17:48,620 --> 00:17:45,120
science as a new method and that would

367
00:17:51,980 --> 00:17:48,630
mean we have inner experience as valid

368
00:17:54,530 --> 00:17:51,990
access route to reality theoretical

369
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:54,540
structures individual purpose in

370
00:18:00,320 --> 00:17:57,120
individual lives ethics and values that

371
00:18:04,910 --> 00:18:00,330
was would rehabilitate introspection as

372
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a method as is already being done my

373
00:18:09,170 --> 00:18:06,920
view is that we could use a

374
00:18:11,210 --> 00:18:09,180
complimentary dual aspect view of

375
00:18:13,550 --> 00:18:11,220
consciousness where consciousness and

376
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:13,560
matter are arising from a deeper unity

377
00:18:18,050 --> 00:18:15,810
but that's open to debate I think this

378
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:18,060
is a minimum consensus model and that

379
00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:20,400
would actually allow us to understand

380
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:23,910
how we can directly into it reality and

381
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:27,650
have direct access to reality through

382
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:30,770
practice of meditation and contemplation

383
00:18:36,110 --> 00:18:33,810
which might give us more insight into

384
00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:36,120
knowledge structures and deeper

385
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:37,710
structures of reality and it might

386
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:42,450
reveal that morality has some foundation

387
00:18:48,170 --> 00:18:45,570
in the deep structure of reality as have

388
00:18:51,770 --> 00:18:48,180
mathematical structures that are the

389
00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:51,780
basis of physics we have developed the

390
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:54,960
generalized I'm finished this is the

391
00:19:00,620 --> 00:18:57,690
last one we have we have developed a

392
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:00,630
generalized model of entanglement which

393
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:02,970
I don't have time to go into but that

394
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:05,970
might be a minimal consensus model also

395
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:08,880
how we could incorporate nonlocality

396
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:13,530
into a rational world model and that is

397
00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:16,530
of course open to debate in future

398
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:20,910
discussions and we were suggesting maybe

399
00:19:26,270 --> 00:19:23,330
postgraduate courses in universities a

400
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:26,280
journal maybe or something like that and

401
00:19:30,980 --> 00:19:28,650
anybody who wants to sign up to that

402
00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:30,990
purpose the scientific and medical

403
00:19:35,330 --> 00:19:33,240
network is very happy for anybody to

404
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:35,340
endorse that sent them emails I have a

405
00:19:40,670 --> 00:19:38,490
few copies of the short report or the or

406
00:19:42,620 --> 00:19:40,680
download the large report and send

407
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:42,630
endorsements if you like thank you very

408
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:44,130
much

409
00:19:56,089 --> 00:19:53,930
Hill they had one question you mentioned

410
00:19:59,450 --> 00:19:56,099
the imbalance between the left and right

411
00:20:01,099 --> 00:19:59,460
brain yes and so I'm guessing the left

412
00:20:02,749 --> 00:20:01,109
brain is not is dominant so I'm

413
00:20:05,419 --> 00:20:02,759
wondering if you think that might

414
00:20:07,789 --> 00:20:05,429
lightly explain why so many of us are

415
00:20:12,499 --> 00:20:07,799
right-handed say death again sort of why

416
00:20:15,769 --> 00:20:12,509
so many of us are right-handed good good

417
00:20:17,989 --> 00:20:15,779
question maybe I don't know I'm not a

418
00:20:28,810 --> 00:20:17,999
neurologist but it may be may I ask with

419
00:20:32,450 --> 00:20:28,820
my right hand you talked about

420
00:20:34,849 --> 00:20:32,460
consciousness I look at it as like

421
00:20:37,940 --> 00:20:34,859
looking at it as our con individual

422
00:20:39,979 --> 00:20:37,950
consciousness and Deepak Chopra -

423
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:39,989
Caputo's talked about the fundamental

424
00:20:45,109 --> 00:20:42,809
awareness as a primordial consciousness

425
00:20:47,839 --> 00:20:45,119
which is distinct from our consciousness

426
00:20:51,589 --> 00:20:47,849
so do you have that like consciousness

427
00:20:53,570 --> 00:20:51,599
is complimentary to matter that idea of

428
00:20:57,529 --> 00:20:53,580
this greater consciousness and maybe

429
00:20:59,509 --> 00:20:57,539
layers is that well you might say that

430
00:21:03,200 --> 00:20:59,519
this model would be something like that

431
00:21:05,570 --> 00:21:03,210
this is a term from from you and I think

432
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:05,580
there probably are various levels there

433
00:21:10,099 --> 00:21:07,200
I'm talking about individual

434
00:21:12,979 --> 00:21:10,109
consciousness here as complementary to

435
00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:12,989
to material events but there may be a

436
00:21:18,529 --> 00:21:16,080
deeper structure which is possible I

437
00:21:20,749 --> 00:21:18,539
think what we need at this point is a

438
00:21:25,820 --> 00:21:20,759
minimal consensus from which we can move

439
00:21:28,940 --> 00:21:25,830
on and if we pose an idealistic model of

440
00:21:31,519 --> 00:21:28,950
reality with mind primary I think we are

441
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,529
running in the same trap and as either

442
00:21:40,580 --> 00:21:33,840
this or that I think we need some some

443
00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:44,150
earlier in your talk you mentioned the

444
00:21:52,650 --> 00:21:48,310
speculation that some of these mystical

445
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:52,660
experiences are subjective experiences

446
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:54,250
which have no corresponding objective

447
00:21:59,940 --> 00:21:57,090
and experience and therefore can't be

448
00:22:03,180 --> 00:21:59,950
externally observed what I'm wondering

449
00:22:07,410 --> 00:22:03,190
is is that in and of itself potentially

450
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:07,420
a limiting belief that in fact there

451
00:22:11,940 --> 00:22:09,490
might be a different frame of reference

452
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:11,950
from which what we consider to be

453
00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:16,080
subjective today could be observable

454
00:22:22,110 --> 00:22:19,270
rather than simply discarding the

455
00:22:24,330 --> 00:22:22,120
possibility of it being objectively

456
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:24,340
observable because our current frame of

457
00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:27,690
reference doesn't doesn't perceive it I

458
00:22:31,950 --> 00:22:30,670
think this is partly a misunderstanding

459
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:31,960
what I wanted to say is that the

460
00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:33,970
referent of an inner experience is not

461
00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:37,240
in the same same way materially extant

462
00:22:47,130 --> 00:22:43,750
outside in the world and sometimes

463
00:22:50,220 --> 00:22:47,140
people simplistically assume it's just

464
00:22:52,290 --> 00:22:50,230
similar to as mystical experiences or

465
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:52,300
spiritual experiences such as similar to

466
00:22:56,580 --> 00:22:54,640
normal observations they are not because

467
00:22:58,440 --> 00:22:56,590
the referent is something different I'm

468
00:23:00,420 --> 00:22:58,450
not saying the referent is illusory I'm

469
00:23:03,540 --> 00:23:00,430
just saying it's different and there may

470
00:23:08,820 --> 00:23:03,550
be some time where we will be able to to

471
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:08,830
find methodologies to to carve out what

472
00:23:13,410 --> 00:23:11,200
that reference actually is now the point

473
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:13,420
is we have 500 years of history of how

474
00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:16,930
we can analyze outer experience of

475
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:20,230
material things right and we are still

476
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:22,690
not sure about the material world around

477
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:26,890
us so how would we be able to find a

478
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:28,930
methodology that is in the same way

479
00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:31,510
rigorous as our scientific methodology

480
00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:33,760
of the material world is about the inner

481
00:23:36,660 --> 00:23:35,200
world and I think that's just a

482
00:23:39,210 --> 00:23:36,670
challenge for the future but there may

483
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:39,220
be some time when this is actually true

484
00:23:48,060 --> 00:23:44,519
or where do you think the role of

485
00:23:50,539 --> 00:23:48,070
psychoanalysis is in this debate has a

486
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:50,549
hundred hundred thirty year old

487
00:23:58,830 --> 00:23:54,850
scientific objective understanding and

488
00:24:00,690 --> 00:23:58,840
quest into the subjective world quite

489
00:24:02,340 --> 00:24:00,700
interesting yeah thank you for for that

490
00:24:05,899 --> 00:24:02,350
question it's actually interesting

491
00:24:11,999 --> 00:24:05,909
because psychoanalysis is an example how

492
00:24:14,909 --> 00:24:12,009
introspective methodology can be can be

493
00:24:17,129 --> 00:24:14,919
put together in a semi rigorous way I

494
00:24:19,259 --> 00:24:17,139
would say and and heal the science that

495
00:24:21,389 --> 00:24:19,269
is still active and it's becoming

496
00:24:23,820 --> 00:24:21,399
evermore accepted since the times of

497
00:24:27,049 --> 00:24:23,830
Freud and that is a good example that is

498
00:24:30,419 --> 00:24:27,059
actually possible incidentally

499
00:24:33,090 --> 00:24:30,429
psychoanalysis was fed by brentano's

500
00:24:37,610 --> 00:24:33,100
impulse of bringing inner experience to

501
00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:37,620
the basis of psychology because the only

502
00:24:43,590 --> 00:24:41,710
non-medical lectures Freud heard were of

503
00:24:47,460 --> 00:24:43,600
brentano in Vienna but that is just

504
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:47,470
incidental quickly you can comment on

505
00:24:51,690 --> 00:24:49,570
bringing inner experience into the

506
00:24:54,029 --> 00:24:51,700
scientific method and whether or not

507
00:24:55,710 --> 00:24:54,039
inner experience isn't already in the

508
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:55,720
method that's actually being used and

509
00:24:59,039 --> 00:24:57,129
scientists just aren't aware of it

510
00:25:00,629 --> 00:24:59,049
perhaps reverse engineering some of the

511
00:25:02,610 --> 00:25:00,639
things that are happening in in the

512
00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:02,620
scientific very good point I think

513
00:25:06,330 --> 00:25:04,600
you're right there it's actually already

514
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:06,340
happening all the time because every

515
00:25:10,740 --> 00:25:07,570
scientists that look through a telescope

516
00:25:13,499 --> 00:25:10,750
and reports what he he or she is seeing

517
00:25:15,090 --> 00:25:13,509
or looks through a microscope and notes

518
00:25:18,529 --> 00:25:15,100
down what he or she is seeing is

519
00:25:21,149 --> 00:25:18,539
actually using inner experience and then

520
00:25:23,749 --> 00:25:21,159
transporting it into some other language

521
00:25:28,049 --> 00:25:23,759
so this is actually there this is what I

522
00:25:30,169 --> 00:25:28,059
to show here in this example it's

523
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:30,179
already there and it needs to be made

524
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:33,250
present but the point is we have no

525
00:25:38,669 --> 00:25:36,690
methodology for how to

526
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:38,679
phenomenologically accessing inner

527
00:25:44,940 --> 00:25:41,919
experience about non material material

528
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:44,950
reference even phenomenology who sells

529
00:25:48,570 --> 00:25:46,720
phenomenology which was actually talking

530
00:25:51,690 --> 00:25:48,580
about the outer world is a very

531
00:25:54,509 --> 00:25:51,700
difficult thing to do and it's still not

532
00:25:55,740 --> 00:25:54,519
accepted so yeah you're right and it's

533
00:25:58,740 --> 00:25:55,750
maybe

534
00:26:01,280 --> 00:25:58,750
more complicated Thank You Harold up